Quad racing motors in single motor "prop in slot" Park Jets

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by e3_Scott, May 24, 2018.

  1. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    I shot this video as kind of a wrap up of almost a year and a half of experimenting with quad motors in single motor prop in slot park jets. Much of what I discuss has already been covered in this thread, but there are a few new items I remembered to mention in this video.


    Here is the link to the blog post I mention several times in the video that supports it with links to much more info if you are interested.
    http://scottsparkjetblog.blogspot.com/2018/09/quad-motors-in-park-jets-summary-after.html

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  2. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    I had my test rig busy today, testing the "budget/value" Racerstar BR2406 2600 kv motor on 3S with a series of RC Timer electric sport props for a project I am going to be working on in the coming months. Here is a link to the updated motor test spreadsheet which also has links to the motor, props, ESC, battery I used for the testing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KLR_wdkJ1OdGcf5f9jxxxU8qqmz_kXjMQH8NOLjW3NQ/edit?usp=sharing

    These props are also sold by Banggood as KMP and Hobby King as TGS. I was looking for a setup that would be very efficient so that perhaps I could use a 30A or even lower amp/lighter ESC to suit the project. Some very interesting results. I tested 6x3, 6x4 and 6x5 props. The 6x3 on the bench anyway certainly came out the winner for power and efficiency. I tested with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC on factory default settings. Here are the results for the 6x3 prop, thrust numbers very similar to the 6x4 APC gas prop, but with a noticeable drop in amp draw.

    50% throttle - 10.5A/128.8W producing 498 gr/17.6 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 25.2A/295.2W producing 930 gr/32.8 oz of thrust.

    On the bench, the 6x4 was a bit disappointing, producing only 875 gr/30.9 oz of thrust while drawing 29.5 A. The 6x5 prop was strangely very close to the 6x3 prop, producing 940 gr/33.2 oz of thrust and drawing 26.6A. I'm wondering if the 6x5 might have been stamped with 6x5 incorrectly?!

    Anyway, I think the 6x3 prop will be a good choice for the project I will be working on, very efficient power for a budget motor that has plenty of torque and is about 20 gr lighter than a 2212 2200 motor:)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  3. I have found on most motors the TGS 6X3 prop does better all around compared to the APC electric or sport 6X4 prop, just wish they would make it in a reversed option too.
     
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  4. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Out doing a little field testing with the Racerstar BR2406 2600 kv motor and the RC Timer 6x3 electric sport prop on 3S as discussed in post #22 above.


    As mentioned, I will be hoping to test this in a smaller park jet project I will be working on in the coming months that will be about 10% smaller and quite a bit lighter than the plane in the video above. There was a little bit of heat build up in the 30A ESC, but I think this might be due to pushing the internal BEC pretty hard with six servos as well.

    To lighten things up even more, I am hoping to experiment with a couple of opto ESCs in 20A and 30A with a lightweight BEC to see how those perform. I have already ordered the ESCs and BECs, linked below

    20A opto ESC - https://www.banggood.com/FVT-Little...C-Multirotors-p-1007740.html?rmmds=mywishlist

    30A opto ESC - https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-...100236.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN

    UBEC - https://www.banggood.com/DC-DC-Conv...981978.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  5. DualDesertEagle

    DualDesertEagle Ace Pilot

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    Just saw this the first time and WOW, that thing can MOVE!
     
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  6. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks, moves a little faster with a more powerful motor on 4S :)



    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  7. DualDesertEagle

    DualDesertEagle Ace Pilot

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    HOLY BEEP-IN' CRAPPY SH!T O_O

    U could probably take part in a pylon race with that!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  8. bogusbandit56

    bogusbandit56 Top Gun

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    When I saw the amp draw and 930gr thrust these words came out my mouth quite involuntary, good grief!:)
     
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  9. bogusbandit56

    bogusbandit56 Top Gun

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    That`s amazing!:)
    You must be well on the way to cracking the ton.
     
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  10. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks very much. I'm getting there, but don't currently have a way of accurately tracking any sort of speed. Hopefully Hobby King will get this GPS logger back in stock soon https://hobbyking.com/en_us/quanum-gps-logger-v2-with-backlit-lcd-display-neo-6-u-blox.html The other one I was using back in the spring when we were discussing this on the Su-30 V4 thread has died once and for all.
    36111_2__1.jpg
    This one is a little chunky at 43 gr, but I am hoping I can get the rather large plastic case off and put some clear heat shrink on it to save some weight.

    I will probably revisit that 100 mph experiment towards the spring again by building another stripped down Su30 V4 that is as light and sleek as possible. I think I only have a few mph more to go to break the 100 mph barrier, so we shall see. The best number I saw before my data logger packed it in was about 98 mph I believe. Meanwhile, this one on 4S gets the adrenaline pumping just fine :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  11. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Would you like to rephrase that DDE?
     
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  12. I can't believe that got through and I couldn't even write Pus-sy. :D :D
     
  13. DualDesertEagle

    DualDesertEagle Ace Pilot

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    Do I have to? I think those are the only words that do my astonishment justice.

    EDIT: Done since someone seems to have complained about it.

    Probably coz I don't mean it as an insult
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  14. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Today I received some new props I am going to experiment with in the mail today, 6x3 APC sport or I assume "gas" props as they have considerably different blade shape than most APC electric or APC knock off props:) https://www.amainhobbies.com/apc-6x3-sport-propeller-apc06030/p36470
    2018-10-03 14.50.22.jpg
    I picked these props up to see if I would get reasonable thrust with low amp draw on a lower kv quad motor I hope to use in a very light weight project I will be working on over the coming weeks and months. I have already started testing a motor using the 6x3 EMP prop and results have been good, I just wanted to see what sort of performance these 6x3 APC props would provide. At the other end of the performance range, I want to evaluate some of the most powerful quad motors on 4S with this prop to see how it compares to the 6x3 EMP prop.

    Here is a picture of the prop compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop and 6x3 EMP prop I have been using the most with quad racing motors.
    2018-10-03 15.47.42.jpg
    It looks like this 6x3 APC prop might be built to take some serious speed, it has a much beefier hub and thicker blade initially as it leaves the hub and then it tapers more than the 6x4. I took this picture to hopefully show how much thicker the hub and blade is close to the hub compared to the 6x4 APC gas.
    2018-10-03 15.48.19.jpg
    Interestingly, this prop does not come with any prop rings or spacers. Fortunately, it threads onto the shaft of the quad motor quite snugly (these quad shafts are the same diameter as most of the 3.17 mm prop collets used on 2212 2200 style motors).
    2018-10-03 16.05.33.jpg

    The props are very stiff and balanced quite well with very little work required to get the prop balanced. More data to follow as I get a chance to start bench and field testing in the coming days/weeks.:)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  15. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    A couple of ESCs I am looking to try out in the coming weeks/months:) I just ordered this YEP 40A ESC from Hobby King https://hobbyking.com/en_us/yep-40a-2-6s-sbec-brushless-speed-controller.html
    2014-10-11 09.27.21.jpg
    It looks to have lots of items than can be programmed to find the optimum performance. I learned over the last year that most of the quad motors, especially the high performance ones like to have very different ESC settings than what normally come from the factory when being used in a park jet without any sort of flight controller or firmware like Betaflight and others. So this will give me something to experiment with. As I may have mentioned in a previous post, Hobby King has discontinued the inexpensive but versatile AE-45A ESC, this YEP is more expensive but does seem to have several more adjustable features.

    Also, when browsing around Banggood, I found this absolutely tiny EMAX 45A ESC that I thought I would give a try https://www.banggood.com/EMAX-Formu...-Racing-Drone-p-1237243.html?rmmds=mywishlist
    2018-10-05 08.00.42.jpg
    Here it is compared to a standard 40A ESC. The item on the right is a 5V/3A BEC I will need to use to power the receiver and servos https://www.banggood.com/DC-DC-Conv...e-FPV-p-981978.html?rmmds=mywishlist&ID=49553.
    2018-10-05 08.00.10.jpg
    The ESC right now without extra wires, connectors, etc only weighs 4 gr:) It has a burst capacity to 55A. It does not have a heat sink, so I'm not sure how it will dissipate heat, I might need to add one, but since I am into the cooler weather it is a good time to test it and if it becomes too warm, perhaps I might need to mount it outside of the electronics bay for cooling. Even with the BEC, wires, connectors, the price will be less than $20 USD and the weight should end up less than half what a normal 40A ESC weighs. Anyway, it will be fun to experiment and see what happens:)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  16. quorneng

    quorneng Ace Pilot

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    It will certainly work.
    Electrics1.JPG
    Here two 20A 'quad' ESCs and a 5A UBEC are used to drive a pair of racing drone motors each with 4 blade 3x3.5 drone props but used as EDFs!
     
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  17. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks very much:) I am using a similar ESC in a very light weight project I am working on, do you know if there is a way to shut the ESC brake off using the transmitter to program? Specifically I am using the FVT Little Bee 20A ESC which look very much like what you have in your plane https://www.banggood.com/fr/FVT-Lit...C-Multirotors-p-1007740.html?rmmds=mywishlist

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  18. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    Some of these ESCs have a “motor reversing” inflight feature.

    For a quad it can be a good thing but in a single motor park jet, not so good, especially on final approach ;)

    In building a few of these racing quads like you mentioned above, I program the ESCs with Betaflite and some older software called OpenPilot and CleanFlight hooked up to a computer via USB on the fight controller.

    I have never tried to set one up any other way but surely somebody out there has done it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  19. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    Scott,

    I came across this “LittleBee ESC programmer for $5.99 US. It is still used with a computer via usb connection and BLheli software. Info here:

    https://atmosphericadventures.com/escs/little-bee-esc-programmer

    “Program your Littlebee ESC using this. Use for Silabs ESC's with BLHeli bootloader through your computer's USB port.


    Steps to Program your ESC:

    Make sure you download and install the BLHeli Suite software from HERE

    Once downloaded, run BLHeliSuite.exe to launch the programming software.

    Click "Select ATMEL/SILABS Interface" drop down menu and choose "SILABS BLHeli Bootloader (USB/COM)"

    You are now ready to connect your Flasher to your PC, and flash your ESCs!

    Connect the Servo Signal cable to the USB Flashing tool, then plug the USB tool into your Computer.

    Apply Battery voltage to the ESC.

    Click on the "Connect" button in BLHeli Suite.

    Click on the "Read Setup" button in BLheli Suite to see all of the current settings saved on the ESC.

    For most setups the majority of settings you remain unchanged. But, there are a few items to check.

    Oneshot - This setting will not be listed anywhere on the BLheli GUI. This is because Oneshot is automatically detected by your ESC. The location you need to activate Oneshot is within your FC software (Cleanflight, Baseflight, etc).

    Startup power - This one is VERY important. Make sure to set your startup power at .25 (1/4) or lower.

    Motor direction - Set this to change the rotational direction of your motor, if needed.
    PWM Frequency / Damped - This setting is where you accomplish "damped light" everyone talks about! Setting to damped light actively brakes the motor on throttle reduction from your transmitter. This allows you to change altitude very quickly during flight, which is a huge advantage in racing applications.
    After adjusting the settings, you MUST click "Write Setup" or your settings will not take effect.”
     
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  20. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    This isn’t using the TX but here is supposedly one way to turn off “active braking” for the LittleBee ESC at this FPV Forum:

    http://intofpv.com/t-how-do-you-turn-off-active-braking-in-blheli

    D6FAE81E-F29D-4AF0-B345-935C0C1F1D89.jpeg
     
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