PARKJET MOTOR BENCH TESTING

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by e3_Scott, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. rhodenga500

    rhodenga500 Ace Pilot

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    Thanks Scott,

    I was planning on purchasing another one and use dual motors on my upscaled parkjet (43 inch WS, T-50).

    About hole patterns; I make my own motor mounts so I can measure the pattern and build one to fit (pictures).

    Thanks Again,,,
     

    Attached Files:

  2. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Nice "squadron" of planes you have there. Be interested to hear how this motor performs for you, I have a few different quad style motors on the way from RC Timer and Hobby King which I will be testing on the bench and at the field, so I will be posting the details on this thread in the coming weeks :)

    Good luck :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  3. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    Scott,
    Thanks for the send on the video.

    It’s a good bit of info.

    I was surprised that the genfan Prop he tested didn’t come apart.

    I would have liked to see the MAS 6x4x3 and an APC 6x5 on 3S tested but they might be too much Prop for it.

    In either case I doubt that this is a motor I would be interested in at its price range.

    Still it’s good info and a decent test of the motors capabilities.

    Thanks again Scott.
     
  4. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi FBK -

    Certainly, no problem. I did an inventory of my props, I found a couple of 6x5 EMP props and one 6x5.5 "APC style" prop which I think I got from Banggood. I think the 6x5.5 is a knockoff, it doesn't seem as stiff as even the "APC style" props I have been using from HobbyKing, but we shall see.

    I do plan on testing the MA 6x4x3. I am optimistic, it is rated as a 39A motor and is still a good Kv rating for the MA 6x4x3 prop on 3S anyway. I am hoping to have the 6x4 APC gas props maybe this week if the shipping prediction is accurate, so I will start testing them to see if they are worth the extra $$$. They are definitely APC props and not knockoffs like I normally use.

    Bench and field tests will be posted as I'm able to get those completed :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  5. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    With a little extra time on my hands as planes are in different stages of building, I thought it was time for an overhaul of the motor test spreadsheet within my exceptionally limited skills with Excel :) I also checked all the hyperlinks, the Grayson site seems to be down right now, so couldn't verify those and some of the links are no longer available as the motor has been out of stock for too long or discontinued. In the case of motors that are no longer available, I left the data there in the event you still have one or find one available somewhere.

    I was finding it cumbersome to navigate, so I separated the data into separate sheets as follows, I labelled the tabs at the bottom, so you shouldn't have to come back here to check the table of contents :)

    Sheet 1 is motors of 2200 Kv since this is a very popular Kv for park jet setups and essentially what RC Powers first used to design their park jets years ago. It ranges from the small Grayson Hobby Micro Jet V3 which based on external measurements is a 2822 size motor (don't know the stator size) up to the Heads Up RC Power Up Zoom 450 which is a 2834 size motor. Of course the majority of the motors on this sheet are the most popular 2212 or 2826 size motors of varying prices and vendors that I have tested.

    Sheet 2 is motors of 2212 size in 2700 Kv. Unfortunately, it seems that other than Deal Extreme (where several people reported the motors being defective), the 2212/6 2700 Kv motor is very hard to find, Fasttech shows their 2212/6 2700 Kv motor as being discontinued now. This is disappointing as I found it to be the most powerful motor of this size on 3S with a 6x3 EMP prop.

    Sheet 3 is motors of 2208 size in 2600 Kv.

    Sheet 4 is the Grayson Super Mega Jet V2 (SMJV2). This motor has been around for a long time, I know there are still a few folks out there who run it. It is a unique size 2834 (external measurement) in 2550 Kv, but is rugged and can spin a wide variety of props. Call me nostalgic, but I still use it occasionally and will continue to test it with different props.

    Sheet 5 is the old (V1) NTM Propdrive 2836 2700 Kv motor. I know that several folks still have these and continue to run them as they are strong and durable.

    Sheet 6 is quad racing motors as I currently have two of these and will have 5 different models shortly, so I wanted to keep them separate for easy comparison.

    There are a couple other sheets of miscellaneous stuff like a non park jet style motor and links to some props I have tested.

    It is easier for me to navigate around now, so hopefully you will find it that way also :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  6. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Always a good day when I get a package of RC goodies in the mail :)
    2017-11-07 13.01.11.jpg
    Today I received my 6x4 APC gas props from AMain Hobbies https://www.amainhobbies.com/apc-6x4-gas-sport-propeller-apc06040/p36472

    First, I must say I am very impressed with the service and packaging. The package arrived well within their shipping estimates and the props were in a sturdy cardboard box surrounded by "air bladder" protective padding. As I might have mentioned, they used a company called coincidentally APC Postal Logistics to keep the shipping cost down, only $2.29 USD and arrived in 10 days. Considering how crazy postage is to Canada from the US these days, I am very pleased with that and would consider ordering from them again. Anyway, enough of the sales pitch, I don't get any special deals from them, but thought I would share a "good service" story when often all we read is disasters :(

    Here are a knockoff 6x4 APC style prop from Hobby King (on top) compared to the APC gas prop (on bottom). You can see a slight difference in the trailing edge of the blade, the gas prop is much straighter. The gas prop comes with two spacer rings, one which fits perfectly on the standard prop collet used on most park jet style motors.
    2017-11-07 13.16.05.jpg
    The gas prop is very stiff, when applying gentle pressure to the blade, it doesn't start to flex until about the last 1/2" of each tip. With the electric prop, this flexing seems to start around 1" from the tip of the blade. The one prop I took out of the package did require a slight bit of balancing, but nothing major. When I stack the two props together and look at them side on, you can see a significant difference in how the pitch goes from hub to tip (electric on top, gas on bottom)
    2017-11-07 13.16.37.jpg

    So I couldn't help myself, I had to test them head to head on at least one motor :) I used a brand new electric 6x4 and checked that it was balanced.

    Motor - Turnigy D2826/6 2200 kv motor, 60A Turnigy Plush ESC timing at low, battery Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C. To ensure the best comparison, I used the same battery to test both props, topping it up to full as I changed props on the motor.

    6x4 APC style electric prop

    50% throttle - 11.5A/140.3W producing 448 gr/15.8 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 23.6A/278.5W producing 775 gr/27.3 oz of thrust.

    6x4 APC gas prop

    50% throttle - 11.8A/144.9W producing 500 gr/17.6 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 23.8A/280.1W producing 848 gr/29.9 oz of thrust.

    What I also noticed right away was that the gas prop is considerably quieter, perhaps because there is less flex? Although I didn't see the same drop in amps as RCPP did in his test with a different motor, I am quite impressed that for the same amp draw, the prop produced almost 10% more thrust at full throttle.

    I think due to prop shape and stiffness, far less power produced by the motor is being wasted in prop flex. This normally translates to good performance in the air as well, as I've found with the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 as it is also a very strong, stiff prop. I'm excited to get one in a plane and start trying it out :)

    I should have some time in the next couple days to get some more testing done, I'll test the NTM 2700 next as I'm sure some "speed demons" are waiting on that data ;) (the V1 as that is what I have, not the new V2).

    I'll update the spreadsheet as I go along as well :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  7. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    I did manage to get another bench test comparison done today with the old NTM PD 2836 2700 Kv (V1) motor comparing the 6x4 APC electric and gas props. Not as significant a difference in top end thrust as with the Turnigy D2826/6 2200 Kv motor, but a pretty significant difference in the mid throttle range.

    Again, I used the same props and battery, topping up the battery between prop changes. Turnigy Plush 60A ESC with timing set to low, Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery.

    6x4 APC electric prop

    50% throttle - 15.7A/193.4W producing 566 gr/20 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 47.8A/534.8W producing 1116 gr/39.4 oz of thrust

    6x4 APC gas prop

    50% throttle - 17.1 A/205.1W producing 636 gr/22.4 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 47.8 A/523.9W producing 1144/40.3 oz of thrust.

    A bit more amp draw mid range with the gas prop, but more than 10% increase in thrust and the prop ran quite a bit quieter. Again, because of the stiffness of the prop, I suspect the numbers would carry over well to the field. :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  8. Interesting, you didn't by chance try it with 4S???? ;) You don't by chance have an actual APC 6X4 Electric prop? I might have to order a couple just to play with. My local hobby shop orders through Horizon Hobby and they were out of stock, When I wanted a bunch of different props especially ccw & cw matching props and they said out of stock I ordered them from APC directly. Because on 4S I usually run the 6X3 TGS prop I did get them to bring in a couple APC 6X3 Free Flight 049 props which are listed under the gas props so I will be able to compare them to the TGS props.
     
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  9. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Jeff -

    No sorry, didn't test them on 4S, don't have a 4S battery currently. I don't have an actual 6x4 APC brand name electric prop either, all the ones I use are the knockoffs from Hobby King. Compared to what I have been using, I think these gas props should give better performance at the field because they are so much stiffer than what I have been using. In my experience, the stiffer the prop, the better the carry over of bench test numbers is to the field as less power from the motor is lost in prop flex.

    AMain has a pretty wide selection of APC props https://www.amainhobbies.com/propellers-accessories-parts-airplanes/c756?fb=248&lg=fb and I found their service and shipping to be very good, received the package in 10 days from the order being processed which was well within their estimate, packaged really well also.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  10. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    I managed to get some more testing done today, comparing head to head the 6x4 APC knockoff electric props (Hobby King) with the original 6x4 gas props. I tested three motors today and the updated spreadsheet with this data and the data from yesterday is attached.

    All tests conducted with a Turnigy Plush 60A ESC timing set to low, Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery that was topped up to full in between prop changes with each motor to have the best chance of consistency.

    Motor - RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv quad racing motor http://rctimer.com/product-1575.html

    6x4 APC style electric

    50% throttle - 11.9A/145W producing 380 gr/13.4 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 28.1A/327.8W producing 671 gr/23.7 oz of thrust.

    6x4 original gas

    50% throttle - 10.5A/128.2W producing 416 gr/14.7 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 27.5A/320.5W producing 788 gr/27.8 oz of thrust

    Not a huge drop in amp draw at 100% throttle, but a significant increase in thrust for such a small motor, slightly better performance mid range as well.

    Motor - DYS BE 2208/7 2600 Kv https://www.banggood.com/DYS-BE2208...or-High-Torque-For-RC-Airplanes-p-941621.html

    6x4 APC style electric

    50% throttle - 11.7A/142.6W producing 470 gr/16.6 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 26.4A/308.7W producing 802 gr/28.3 oz of thrust.

    6x4 original gas

    50% throttle - 13.4A/166.7W producing 505 gr/17.8 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle 27.1A/321.4W producing 884 gr/31.2 oz of thrust

    Amp draw increased slightly with the gas prop at both mid and full throttle with this motor, with only slight improvement at mid range, but a pretty good jump at full throttle.

    Motor - Gear Best A2212/5T 2700 Kv https://www.gearbest.com/multi-rotor-parts/pp_180560.html

    6x4 APC style electric

    50% throttle - 14.8A/180.8W producing 544 gr/19.2 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 35A/421.5W producing 892 gr/31.5 oz of thrust.

    6x4 original gas

    50% throttle - 14.4A/174.1W producing 568 gr/20.0 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle 32.1A/370.6W producing 1004 gr/35.4 oz of thrust.

    This motor really seems to like the gas 6x4 APC prop, a significant drop in amps at full throttle with a significant increase in thrust, always a good thing :) I'll have to get this into a plane soon and give it a whirl at the field :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Great info Scott. :) I have some ordered along with a couple different pitches to test with. I want to see how their 6X3 gas Free Flight 049 sport prop does against the TGS 6X3 of course using the 2700 or 3000kv NTM motor on 4S.

    Also to play with some of the low kv motors 1400kv or so I ordered a couple of their 10X5 and 9X6 sport props to compare against their electric ones.
     
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  12. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks Jeff:) I'm not sure that there might be as much of a difference if I was using actual APC electric props rather than the knockoffs that Hobby King sells, but I imagine other people use them as they are cheap and still work pretty well. I notice that they don't call them "APC style" on their website, rather "Aerostar Composite Propeller" (ACP :)), APC must have had words with Hobby King :)

    I hope to field test the APC gas props in a couple planes on Friday when I maiden my latest Mig-35B. I'm hoping to bench test the BeeRotor 2207 2780 Kv racing motor tomorrow as it is what I am running in my 90% Mig-35B. Depending on the thrust numbers, I'll either field test it in the 90% Mig, or drop the GB 2700 in there since it seems to have very good thrust with lower amps :)

    PS - one of the conversations I had with RCPP is he mentioned that the TGS props that you like to use from HK might be a bit thinner and more efficient than the EMP ones I use although the props look very much the same. I'll pick up some TGS props next time I do an HK order. I always was under the impression they were the same, just marketed with different names, but worth checking it out. RCPP seems to really like TGS props of all different sizes for motors he tests.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  13. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    One more test complete comparing the HK knockoff 6x4 APC style electric prop to the actual 6x4 APC gas prop, impressive increase in thrust numbers :)

    Today I tested the BeeRotor Z2207 2780Kv quad/FPV racing motor from RC Timer http://rctimer.com/product-1734.html that has made my 90% Mig-35B a little rocket :)

    Same testing protocol as previous tests, Turnigy Plush 60A ESC, timing low, Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery topped up to full again between prop changes.

    6x4 APC style electric

    50% throttle - 15.3A/183.6W producing 420 gr/14.8 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 32.9A/385.9W producing 652 gr/23.0 oz of thrust.

    6x4 APC original gas

    50% throttle - 15.1A/183.4W producing 504 gr/17.8 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 32.0A/371.7W producing 804 gr/28.4 oz of thrust.

    This is another little motor that really likes the strong backbone of the stiffer blade on the 6x4 APC gas prop, a pretty incredible increase in thrust at both mid range and full throttle with a slight drop in amps draw, should be fun to see how we do at the field :) It is also much quieter than the 6x4 electric.

    Tomorrow looks like I should have a weather window to get out and start field testing a couple of planes with these new props I received. In addition to the 90% Mig-35B, I dropped the A2212/5T 2700 Kv motor with a 6x4 APC gas prop into my new F-18 V5.
    2017-11-09 07.32.42.jpg
    Based on the data, this not only should give me about 2 oz more thrust, but my Hornet is no longer so "hefty" dropping 25 gr/0.9 oz by swapping out the SMJV2 for this motor/prop setup :)

    New spreadsheet is also attached with this latest data.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Nice increase in thrust on almost all those motors
     
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  15. bogusbandit56

    bogusbandit56 Top Gun

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    I`m shocked at how well the gearbest 2212 2700kva motor does against the DYS 2600kva.
    DYS quote on their figures 6x5e and 7x5e props. Have you any of those props to try, I am sure they would produce a bit more uumph.
     
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  16. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    I have a 6x5 prop I might test eventually. I would not think the DYS motor would swing a 7x5 except maybe on 2S or if it was a special thin quad style prop as I think some folks use these motors on larger quads.

    It is physically smaller and has less Kv than the 2212 2700 motor, different windings, so perhaps greater speed with the right prop, but certainly less torque. One of the reasons I started testing prop/motor combinations was that often vendors either do not post the correct information or exaggerate it, so I wanted to know what was the best combo for my plane and my flying style while being able to safely match the ESC and batteries to complete the power setup.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  17. bogusbandit56

    bogusbandit56 Top Gun

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    I have just checked and the power drops off at the top end with the 7x5e on 3s so the 6x5e would be better:)
    I have one of these DYS motors and I am beginning to think it may be a duffer.
    I have a thrust o meter some where in one of the sheds, I will dig it out and do some tests of my own on the various motors I have.
     
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  18. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    The DYS 2600 motors are good motors, in the dozens of flights I have flown with them, their main advantages over other motors is that they are light (56 gr as opposed to 66 gr for the standard 2212 size motor) and have generally very good bearings which does help them run smoother and deliver more power to the prop and keep the overall plane a little lighter than most of the cheaper 2212 size motors in either 2200 or 2700 Kv. However, given that the stator is only 8mm tall as opposed to 12mm tall, they don't work as well on the wide range of props as do the popular 2212 2200 size motors for example as they lack a little torque and overall "oomph" at times.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  19. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Here is a flight video of the field testing I completed today with the A2212/5T 2700 Kv motor and 6x4 APC gas prop in my RCP F-18 V5. Very speedy little setup for a plane that weighs 21 oz/595 gr :)



    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  20. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Field test video of the BeeRotor Z2207 2780Kv motor with a true 6x4 APC gas prop in my 90% DTF NAMC Mig-35B :) The increase in speed might not show up comparing it to previous videos, but it was considerably faster on the sticks. I have dialed down the throws by 10% already and might even go a bit lower than that. This much speed on a small plane takes some time to get used to as everything happens pretty fast, even at half throttle :) I will "dumb it down" a bit more on the throws so that I can keep up with the plane!



    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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