PARKJET MOTOR BENCH TESTING

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by e3_Scott, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Just looked at it on Bangood, not a cheap motor $30.00 CA.

    1900KV up to 6S
    2200KV up to 5S
    2500KV up to 4S
     
  2. Nakul

    Nakul Ace Pilot

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    Prob first dude who is using quad motor on his own scratch built design pylon racer, he says he is using the 2500kv version on 6s. 40g motor, 45A F45 Esc, 700mah 6s lipo under 300g AUW and 200mph+ 1500w on a tiny plane, mind blown !!!



    Another model using diff motor


    :O
     
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  3. At 300g you could sneeze on it and make it go. :)
     
  4. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    I am running one of the new RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv motors http://rctimer.com/product-1575.html in my recently completed RCP F-22 V5s. Just wanted to pass along a couple of my experiences from some flying yesterday. As you can see in the video below, it moves this plane along quite well at an AUW of 20.8 oz/570 gr.


    I normally run Turnigy Plush 40A ESCs in all my planes as it handles all the motors that I like, but for this build, I decided to go with a Turnigy Plush 30A ESC https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-plush-30amp-speed-controller.html to reduce the weight as much as possible. There is only about a 7 gr weight saving with the 30A ESC over the 40A ESC, but I decided to give it a shot anyway. Using the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop, this motor pulls up to 32A on 3S, but the Turnigy Plush 30A ESC is rated to handle bursts of up to 40A. I figured since fall is upon us and the temps will continue to drop, heat build up shouldn't be a problem.
    2017-09-22 11.37.02.jpg
    During yesterday's flying session, it got up to about 20 C/68 F and even with some pretty hard flying with lots of "thrash and dash" (aerobatics and full throttle runs :) ), the ESC got warm, but nothing that was of any concern. The built in BEC had no problem at all handling a six servo setup, so for now I will continue with this ESC through the cooler months ahead.

    One thing that did catch me by surprise was the label coming off the motor in flight :/ At first I thought the whole plane was coming apart it made such a racket banging off the prop, but I got it down and found that the label was coming off.
    2017-09-23 07.45.57.jpg
    The motor was running quite cool, so I don't think it was a heat build up issue melting the adhesive, I think the adhesive is not so good! I will remove it from the other two motors I bought right away. I consider myself pretty lucky that the label didn't get into one of the large cooling vents on this motor and get caught in the stator or between the stator and the magnets as the results could have been catastrophic :(

    I know that a couple of folks are now using this motor after reading my tests, so I thought I would pass it along, probably safest to remove this label from your RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv motor before it causes an issue :)

    EDIT: Peter (homey666) and Silvio (RCUrso) just passed on to me via PM that the label on their FR2205 2550Kv motors came off first flight but didn't cause any issues, so even more support for the idea of removing the label from this motor before use so that potential issues of the motor becoming fouled by a rogue label are eliminated :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  5. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    Very very nice Nakul!
    Yeah these EDFs have come a long way.
    I like ‘em!
    They sound better than a prop slot and the performance is good.

    As good as they are now there really isn’t the drawbacks that once existed if you match parts correctly but that’s even true with slot props.

    Prices are also dropping some and the EDF plans are out there like Bimo’s Typhoon which is exceptional and makes for a “REAL” nice change of pace from previous slot prop builds, even though I still like those too. :)

    EDF’s are here to stay.
     
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  6. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Always a good day when some goodies arrive from RC Timer :) While I'm waiting for batteries to charge to get some testing done, I thought I would give my first impressions.
    2017-10-19 12.47.10.jpg
    Shown is my new BeeRotor Z2207/2780 Kv FPV quad racing motor from RC Timer along with some stickers they send me now with every motor I order :) Link to the motor is here http://rctimer.com/product-1734.html

    The motor as is without any hardware or connectors weighs 36 gr/1.3 oz. On initial inspection, it is a very solid but light motor, smooth bearings and strong magnets. It easily accepts the standard "X" mount from a 2212/2826 motor, so will mount in most of our park jets pretty easily. The motor leads are 7"/178 mm long. I kept them the full length and added my bullet connectors. It does not come with bullet connectors or any connectors for that matter, so you will have to provide your own.
    2017-10-19 12.50.51.jpg
    With the hardware, connectors and prop mounted, it weighs 50 gr/1.8 oz. A bit heavier (6 gr/0.2 oz) than the other RC Timer quad racing motor (http://rctimer.com/product-1575.html) I have been using, but the stator is 2mm longer and the "can" does seem a little stronger and thicker.
    2017-10-19 13.13.46.jpg

    For starters, I will test it with the 6x3 EMP, 6x4 APC and Master Airscrew 6x4x3 props. I really have no idea what the amp limit is on this motor. I have sent two messages to RC Timer for clarification, still waiting on answers. The charts on their website are quite confusing to me, but they tested it with a 5x5x3 prop and some 5x4.5x3 props, so I'll just have to monitor that and see what the heat build up gets like when I go up to the 6x4x3 prop.

    I will post the test results and updated spreadsheet when available :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  7. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Just finished up a quick round of testing with the BeeRotor Z2207 2780Kv motor from RC Timer mentioned above, and here are the results. All tests conducted with a Turnigy Plush 60A ESC with timing set to low and a Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery (a fresh battery used with each different prop)

    6x3 EMP

    50% throttle - 12.9A/155.1W producing 492 gr/17.4 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 28.4A/322.6W producing 826 gr/29.1 oz of thrust.

    6x4 APC

    50% throttle- 14.8A/176.5W producing 378 gr/13.2 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 34.7A/409.6W producing 606 gr/21.3 oz of thrust.

    Master Airscrew 6x4x3

    50% throttle - 15.8A/188.9W producing 404 gr/14.3 oz of thrust;

    100% throttle - 37.3A/444.9W producing 824 gr/29.1 oz of thrust.

    So on paper thus far, top end thrust is a tie between the 6x3 EMP and MA 6x4x3 although the 6x3 EMP does it far more efficiently (much less amp draw). Mid range, the 6x3 EMP is a clear winner. The 6x4 APC is not very efficient and does not produce anywhere near as much thrust as the other two. What always interests me is taking this knowledge to the field and seeing "how the rubber hits the road" when flight testing. I will put this motor in my mini Mig-35B I'm building and start off with the 6x3 EMP to give it a bit of a "break in period" and experiment from there with the other props.

    I held the throttle at full for a full 10 seconds with the MA 6x4x3 prop at the end of testing, the motor got just the tiniest bit warm, nothing too worrisome, so I hope I am still running it within acceptable specs at almost 40A ;)

    Excited to see how it makes out where it matters :) I have attached the updated spreadsheet as well.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. That's pretty good thrust out of that little guy, the 6x4 prop is probably over it's limit where it just doesn't have enough steam to get it going.
     
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  9. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    I like the looks of that little racing motor Scott.

    I would order a few to try but the last couple of times I ordered from them it never came in so I’ve given up on them for now.

    I have ordered stuff in the past without problems but no luck here lately, probably typos in the delivery address or something, who knows.

    These little racing quad motors are fairly plentiful, I see them all over the place so it’s good to know that a good source of power is available for some time to come.

    I do prefer these 3-blade props. The MasterAirScrew doesn’t always provide the most thrust but seems to cause less torque roll than the 2-blade props and the power is strong from zero to WOT. They provide lots of consistent thrust even at lower rpms and I like that.

    They also don’t seem to be quite as noisy and I like the 3-blade look.

    I was afraid there might be more problems with ground strikes using the 3-blades but none of that materialized in my flights.

    I found some knock-off 3-blade props used primarily for quads that work ok just not quite as good as the MAS but way cheaper.

    I use a MAS 6x4x3 on the RCPowers Hydro plane their Typhoon V5 and FRC’s MiG 2.4 and they work very well.

    Excellant test info as always Scott, this should be of great benifit to those looking for power alternatives.

    Take care,
    FBK22
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  10. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi FBK22 -

    Thanks very much. Sorry to hear of your recent difficulties with RC Timer, sometimes an unfortunate part of this hobby when trying to keep the cost down dealing with overseas online vendors. In the past they have responded to my queries and questions quite promptly, but not this time, oh well, I will press on. I suspect there might be something not quite right with their site currently, I have tried leaving reviews on a couple of products and either they are still reviewing them before posting them, or they disappeared into a black hole somewhere :( Reading through this forum we all have had issues with one online vendor at one time or another either domestic or international :)

    With how big a part of the RC hobby quad/multirotor/FPV racing has become, it makes sense that some of the technology and gear is making it's way into other parts of the RC flying hobby. Long before I picked them up to try folks have been designing either one off or mainstream planes based on using these small, powerful motors, so I think they are here to stay for specific applications based on either the design or a specific build/performance a person might be trying to achieve.

    The designers and producers of these motors are certainly spending a lot of time and effort to squeeze the maximum amount of power from the smallest, lightest motors possible as that part of the RC hobby and it's rapid evolution demands it and many companies have jumped on board with that. Just a few years ago, RC Timer was more of a general RC vendor, certainly not on the same scale as Hobby King, but RC Timer jumped on the multi rotor/quad/FPV racing bandwagon early and now that dominates the largest part of their business. Compared to the mainstream 2212 size park jet motors we have used for years, they are certainly more expensive, $17 USD for this Z2207 2780 Kv motor as opposed to $5 for a 2212/6 2200 Kv motor from Banggood, it might make a person pause before buying the quad motor if they are not looking for anything specific and just want to have fun without spending a whole lot of money.

    As you mentioned, it is simply another option depending on a specific use. To be able to use the same props as I might use on a 2212 2200 kv motor with equivalent or perhaps even better power and efficiency while reducing the overall weight of my power setup by about 1 oz/28 gr, then it is well worth it to lighten up a plane when seeking specific performance. However, from what I have seen thus far with a couple hundred flights with the FR2205 2550 Kv motor and from feedback I have heard from other builders/pilots, they are not quite the versatile workhorse that the 2212 2200 Kv motors are. Due to their smaller size, they don't quite have the "grunt" that the 2212 2200 Kv motors do, if your plane starts to get a little "robust" up over 22 oz/624 gr or if you are flying in a wind up over about 15 mph, the smaller quad racing style motors start to struggle a bit. Which makes sense, the stator is essentially half the size as is the surface area of the magnets inside the "can" compared to the 2212 size motors, so higher Kv aside, they don't quite have the "grunt" when really pushed hard with extra weight or drag. For those folks who occasionally like to swing a 7" prop on 3S, these small quad racing motors would probably not be up to that challenge either. We both know from bench and field testing that the 2212 2200 Kv motors can swing a pretty wide variety of 6 and 7" props and perform well.

    My personal thoughts are that the 2212 style motor in either 2200 or 2700 Kv will certainly continue to be the mainstay of park jets for awhile, but not much has changed about the performance, weight and quality of these motors in the 5+ yrs I have been in this hobby. They are certainly more readily available from a multitude of vendors and the cost has come down as the market has been flooded with them in the time I have been building and flying park jets.

    There are certainly a multitude of different companies and vendors producing and selling quad racing motors, so I can only assume that competition will continue to drive the price of those down as well. I have been watching several videos on RC Plane Pirate's You Tube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/rcplanepirate), he has been testing several different brands and sizes of quad style motors with a far wider range of props than I have on both 3S and 4S with some pretty surprising results. Many of the props he has tried are smaller (4 and 5") in two or three blade quad style props which seem to provide lots of thrust with the right motor and are also very inexpensive from HK, Banggood and several other vendors. I think there is lots of potential with these small, powerful motors moving forward.

    I fear my morning ramble has gone on far too long, time to pour another coffee... :). I am excited to see how this Z2207 2780 Kv motor performs at the field. The bench testing I think is an important aspect to ensure the right ESC and battery are selected, but I have seen often recently where the bench numbers didn't translate directly to the field. Either the flight performance was worse than the numbers might predict or better. The FR2205 2550 Kv motor numbers with the 6x4 APC were not that great, yet at the field it performed very well, always fun to test and experiment, I never know what surprises I might find :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  11. Flybyknight22

    Flybyknight22 Top Gun

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    Excellent run down on the general state of park jet motors Scott.

    If one is strictly building a default plane from established providers like yours at NAMC, RCPOWERS, FRC and International ParkJet Flyers, all the guess work has been eliminated.

    You just build the plane to spec and find the parts that you and others in their plans have shown to work and your done. “BUT” we all know the human spirit and how much fun it is to experiment with the build soooo we find ourselves here getting the numbers we need to make our “X” planes fly :)

    I remember some time ago wondering where I could find “specific” information on different motors configured with various prop sizes. There just didn’t seem to be a repository of that info in any one place. I found myself hopscotching around the web looking, until I found YOU and this thread :)

    There is no telling how many people have found this thread and the answers they were looking for without leaving comment but I would bet they are numerous.

    I find myself doing less bench testing these days because previous testing and info from yours, posted here, has shown a rather wide variety of safe combinations of ESC, Props, and batteries that work well together.

    I still like to “stress test” new parts before putting them in a new plane but I now know generally speaking, what works and what doesn’t based on a planes weight and surface area ahead of time. Essentially I’m mostly looking for part failures now before flying.

    For me fairly recently, the primary area where I think there may be room for significantly more extensive experimenting and testing is in the EDF arena. There are different variables to consider there and I don’t think that that has been adequately explored enough to suit my purposes (and perhaps others) so I will be testing these for some time to come, especially since Jeff provided those EXCELLANT EDF adapters for use with the Turnigy Thrust Stand.
    THANKS JEFF!

    I’m finding out now that the inconsistencies in battery performance of the same type, manufacturer and rating seem to outweigh even those found in motor, ESC and prop performance data. The Battery performance numbers I’m seeing seem to vary widely. It would be interesting to know what kind of quality assurance (if any) is used in their manufacture and testing.

    I have been considering the purchase of specific battery stress testing equipment to evaluate batteries individually without anything else attached but that’s another topic and is probably overkill, we’ll see :)

    This broad base of info in your thread is very valuable and with so much of it posted here in one location, along with the comprehensive spreadsheet that you graciously provide for us, most scratch builders should be able to find what they are looking for “if” they are willing to read through it.

    This particular thread reminds me of a great performing long term investment that increases in value over time. The cumulative information over time that’s provided here, that’s specifically geared towards propulsion data, for the scratch builder, is what I find amazing.

    Thank you Scott for all the selfless work you have done and shared over time in this area. I for one am appreciative of your efforts.

    My very best Regards,
    Dennie
    AA7C83AB-01AA-45AB-A8D5-9BF3E06C58A8.png
     
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  12. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Dennie -

    Many thanks as always for your humbling and kind words :) I like to continue to look around for different motors or even different props to try on established motors, it is always interesting to see how just changing a prop can have an affect on power, efficiency (sometimes luckily both) to suit an individual's flight preferences.

    It makes me happy to see the contributions that you, Jeff, Nakul and others have made to this thread, keeps a more broad spectrum of information and experience going here :)

    I would certainly be interested in what you might come up with for testing performance in batteries to see the differences even of the same brand and model. With so many restrictions on shipping or the incredible increase in shipping costs, exchange rates, duty, taxes, customs, etc, the unit cost of a 2200 3S battery is certainly much higher (probably close to double) than it was 5 yrs ago when I got serious about this hobby. As such, it is even more important for all of us to have confidence that the money we spend on Lipos is going to give us the performance and durability to make it worthwhile.

    After spending far too much money on the wrong batteries early in the hobby, I have found that the Zippy Flightmax and Turnigy Blue batteries from Hobby King have been very reliable and durable batteries when matched to the right power setup. For the last three years, I have used Zippy Flightmax pretty much exclusively except for some ZOP Power batteries I got from Banggood awhile back (Banggood will no longer ship batteries to me in Canada) I had considerable bad luck with Nano Tech batteries and some disappointment with the Zippy Compact brand, but we all have stories of what "flavor" of battery has worked best for us over the years. :)

    Always fun to continue to test and experiment :) All the best!

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  13. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    With the maiden of my new 90% NAMC Mig-35B today, I was able to start evaluating the BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv motor from RC Timer http://rctimer.com/product-1734.html. Here is some video of it using the 6x4 APC prop.


    Today I was able to evaluate a few flights with each of the three props bench tested in post #747 above, the 6x3 EMP (TGS), 6x4 APC and Master Airscrew 6x4x3.

    The overall winner just based on acceleration, top speed and efficiency (how much juice was left in the battery at the end of a 5 minute flight) is the 6x3 EMP. To my poor old 56 yr old eyeglass assisted MK1 eyeball, there didn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in top speed between the 6x3 EMP and 6x4 APC props, but I will hopefully shoot video with the 6x3 EMP prop soon to be able to better evaluate.

    It was a fairly cool day today, highest temperature during the flying session was about 12 C/54 F, so the motor/ESC/battery stayed fairly cool regardless of the prop, although there was a significant difference with the Master Airscrew (MA) 6x4x3 prop. The 6x4 APC prop did pull a little more juice out of the battery, but maybe only about 5% more than the 6x3 EMP, the MA 6x4x3 pulled out about 10% more :(

    Although it is one of my favorite props on a wide range of park jet style/size motors, I won't use the MA 6x4x3 prop on this motor. As Jeff (Wildthing) and I discovered maybe a year ago (?) when spinning this prop on 2700 + Kv motors, it seems to reach a point of diminishing returns where it certainly does not go as fast as it does with the two bladed props and draws considerably more amps. Which is a bit of a head scratcher...this prop seems to work really well on 2550 and 2600 Kv motors, but as soon as I try it on a 2700 + Kv motor, performance drops considerably.

    I'm still deciding on whether I like the 6x3 EMP or 6x4 APC prop better, the 6x3 EMP prop is definitely louder, but does perform better, so I'll continue to evaluate and see what I decide :)

    This is a very good little motor, compared to the RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv motor (http://rctimer.com/product-1575.html) I have been using a lot lately, I'm not 100% sure it is worth the extra $6, but deciding that after the first session is probably not a fair assessment. I will continue to evaluate this little beast moving forward and update as testing goes along :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  14. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Had these two beauties out for some fun today, playing around with some different props. :)
    2017-10-27 09.08.08.jpg
    In the RCP F-22 V5, I have been running the RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv motor http://rctimer.com/product-1575.html, mostly with the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop, 30A ESC and 3S battery. Today I played around a bit more with a 6x4 APC prop with this motor. No video of it today, but I have shot video using this prop earlier with this motor that is somewhere in this thread :)

    In the 90% Mig-35B as mentioned above in post #753, I am running the BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv motor from RC Timer. Today I ran it quite a bit with the 6x3 EMP/TGS prop and shot some video


    Again, a bit tough to tell on the video if the 6x3 EMP is that much faster top end, it is better mid range, ie at 60% throttle it flies noticeably faster than it does with the 6x4 APC and acceleration is better. It is also more efficient, I tested it again on the wattmeter at the field with a couple different batteries and it was only drawing 27A, so I would feel comfortable using a 30A ESC with this motor and prop combo if I decide this is the prop I want to use moving forward.

    I am pretty sure it is worth the extra $6 for a really speedy setup with a light quad motor, but to see the difference since the Mig-35B at 90% is a pretty speedy beast, I will will swap motors between these two planes and see what the difference really is :)

    More testing to come and some other ideas to share, I have had a few discussions with rcplanepirate through his You Tube channel and have some ideas for other props to try and perhaps another motor if it goes on sale :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  15. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    As I finish up my latest RCP F18 V5 build, I think I am cured of my "building bug" for awhile, but that seems to have been replaced with the "motor/prop testing bug" :)

    I was watching this video by rcplanepirate a few days ago and starting at 4:00 in the video, he tests first an electric 6x4 APC, then a gas 6x4 APC. It really got my attention as you can see there is a fairly significant increase in thrust with the gas prop with a significant decrease in amp draw over the electric 6x4 APC prop.


    Just rough numbers, I saw about 1290 gr/45.5 oz of thrust with the 6x4 APC gas prop drawing 46A, and 1135 gr/40 oz of thrust with the 6x4 APC electric prop drawing 50A. I asked him about it through the comments, he figures the prop shape and the fact it is probably stiffer accounts for the better performance. I remember Airflow using gas props with his "Big Bertha" setup, but never thought about trying them on smaller 3S setups. RCPP shot me a link to AMain hobbies https://www.amainhobbies.com/apc-6x4-gas-sport-propeller-apc06040/p36472, so I picked up some to try. I was actually surprised, the shipping is quite cheap, lately I have not purchased from US vendors unless I absolutely need the item as shipping has gone a bit nuts. For four props to be shipped to me, the shipping was $2.99. Of course the Cdn government will take their share in duty and taxes when it crosses the border :(, but these seem to be true APC props, not the "knock offs" like I have been using from Hobby King for years.
    apc06040 gas.jpg
    Sticking with the prop theme, I have also ordered some Gemfan Electric Racing props from Banggood https://www.banggood.com/Gemfan-403...g-Speed-Propeller-p-978885.html?rmmds=myorder

    I ordered them in 5x5, 5.5x4.3, 5.5x5.5 and 6x6 sizes. I have never experimented much with props smaller than 6", so wanted to see what those would do on a variety of motors. Also, I have never really experimented with a 6" prop any higher than a 4" pitch. RCPP has used them in a few tests, so I'm interested to see what they can do. When you look at the picture, the seem to have a thin blade (hopefully it is stiff), but still a very beefy hub. The blade shape looks like maybe a cross between an APC and an EMP/TGS blade? Won't know for sure til I have them whenever they arrive on the slow boat :)

    My fascination with lightweight high Kv quad style racing motors continues based on the great performance I have seen from the two I have tested thus far from RC Timer. Again, RCPP has tested quite a few of them, so I asked him which he thought would be the best to swing a 6" prop. He told me he thought the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 from Hobby King https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multist...runner-drone-racing-motor-2208-2600kv-cw.html would be a very good choice, but expensive.
    multistar viking 2208 2600.jpg
    He picked his test one up on sale, so I will keep an eye on that, with Black Friday sales upcoming in about a month, perhaps I might be able to get one a bit cheaper. They currently sell for $27.06 US ($34.67 Cdn based on today's exchange), so I'll wait awhile :).

    Fortunately, a couple of fellows in my RC flying club have expressed an interest in park jets, so I have been able to sell them a couple of my 2212 size motors I had still in packages, making some funds available to pick up another motor from RC Timer. Based on size and Kv it is right in the middle of the two I have tested thus far http://rctimer.com/product-1583.html, at $11.99 USD it is a little more reasonable price as well :)
    RC Timer 2306 2650 kv.jpg
    So as all these bits and pieces trickle in by mail, I will start bench and field testing in the coming weeks and months :)

    I have told RCPP that I will be posting some of his videos here on occasion as he has gone to a lot of work to buy the motors, etc and does a good job of his videos and tests a much wider range of motors than I ever will. He said he is happy with that, the more folks that might learn from them the better. He has done some pretty insane work with 64 mm EDFs, so lots of info on his You tube channel on those :)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  16. Gas props hey ;) my local hobby store stocks quite a few APC props, might have to go check out their inventory. Heck if I can wait, they do a stock order every Friday and don't charge any freight.
     
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  17. Nakul

    Nakul Ace Pilot

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    Gas Prop. I use them on my fast funjet with the het 2w30 2200kv motor on 4s 7x5 & 7x6 apc sport (gas) and i use the 7x7 on my Efxtra racer plans. Love them over electric props although they do have a max rpm level, not nice to cross that


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Hi Everyone -

    Something that has always puzzled me is how two motors for example the very popular 2212 2200 Kv and 2212 2700 Kv can look the same, weigh the same, yet one spins faster, can handle more amps and normally produce more power.

    I posted this comment on one of rcplanepirate's videos today as he is much smarter than me on electronics and what makes all the goodies in our electric RC power systems work.

    "Hi RCPP, hope you are well. Another bothersome question... :) One thing that has always puzzled me as this size (2212) is a motor I have used a lot over the years in my park jets. I have had great success with the no name ones from Ebay and Banggood in both 2200 and 2700 Kv. My question is about Kv. How do they increase the Kv in a motor that when I look at it with my naked eye, I can't tell the difference in windings, magnets, etc? They tend to weigh exactly the same whether 2200 or 2700 Kv and I have run some that are 2212/6 (so I assume the same number of windings/wraps) in both 2200 and 2700 Kv. Do you have any idea how the manufacturers make that magic happen to have such a difference in Kv/RPM/power between two motors that on the outside look pretty much exactly the same? Thanks :) Cheers, Scott"

    RCPP was kind enough to respond right away and his answer certainly helped me out in understanding the differences between how two motors of the same size can have different Kv ratings, amp limits and power output. Hope this might be helpful to some of you as well :)

    "Hi Scott
    Well timed I just got back from work. I have rewound a couple of motors with single strand wire and it's the more turns on the windings then the lower the kv. So using thicker wire means you get less turns on the windings which gives you a higher kv. Multi strand wire windings just use more or less strands and then obviously the more stands the less turns "high kv" and the less strands the more turns "low kv". If you look at motors of the same make the lower the kv the less amps it can take and the higher the kv the more amps it can take. That's because it's got more strands. Say each strand can take 10 amps and there are 4 stands then that motor can take 40 amps and you would get say 6 turns on the windings. Then if another motor has 5 strands it can then take 50 amps but you would only get say 5 turns. So less turns but the extra strand means it's still sort of the same amount of wire. So the motors will still end up about the same weight. As you see on those 2212/6 2200kv motors the /6 means 6 turns and the 2212/5 2700kv /5 means 5 turns.
    Hope that's a good explanation and helps you out.
    ...RCPP"

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
    Flybyknight22 and Wildthing like this.
  19. Dave748

    Dave748 Ace Pilot

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    FBK22,
    I have been working with two UsA based FPV quad suppliers whom I have found to be reputable. They are GetFPV.com and RMRC.COM Both of these companies sell a variety of quad motors

    Dave
     
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  20. Dave748

    Dave748 Ace Pilot

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    Scott, another fantastic video. 19ounces and 90% of the NAMC MiG-35B dimensions! I think you have created another, “sweet spot” airplane if the video provides any hints. I’ll be interested in your reaction on a windy day with this plane and power system. I’m enjoying my NAMC MiG-35B with a NTM 2700 KV and a 3S, 2200 mah battery. It handles the winds here in the Northeast of the USA quite well. I love the idea of building light to maximize flight performance and flight time!

    Thank you for the great video and research!
    Dave
     
    Wildthing likes this.
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