FRCFOAMIES 3D BEAST (PROFILE)

Discussion in 'FRCFoamies Plans' started by Boxermad84, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    That's nice sgmoran! I love high alpha. For me when I started getting serious, it was a matter of committing to it once the spoilerons go up! Flick the spoilerons up and let the rudders do their work. On the f18 v2 there was no tv, so I would peg the elevator almost all the way up and just use throttle and rudders. On the v3 the tv will flip you around. Btw, do you have rudders and spoilerons ? They both make high alpha so much easier. I'll head over to the thread now and see.

    www.youtube.com/gstrysky
    www.frcfoamies.com
     
  2. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Rudders but no spoilerons (I do have ailerons) on the F18. I went with the Standard Wiring Diagram using splitters. Now that I have the DX8, on my Mig build I will figure out the radio so I can have spoilerons. I have spoilerons on my Edge Foamie and that definitely make it easier to high alpha. Built the Cheap n Easy tonight. Will start on the Alpha jet once I have repaired my others. Then the Mig. Then the .....
     
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  3. whatmovesyou

    whatmovesyou Top Gun

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    Sgmoran, you have a problem(click on 28382 view). The setup to control both ailerons is a little haywire. The deflection between upper/lower will cause uneven movements making the bipe wild to fly or crash it.
    bipe setup 001.JPG
    With your setup, movement of upper/lower is not the same. I use cutoff servo arms hot glued into FFF, and a wire with a V shape for adjustments (makes wings parallel ) . You need to keep distance the same from pivot point as well. In your side view, that is lacking between upper and lower.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
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  4. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    I appreciate your taking a look at the ailerons. The wings are parallel and the mounting points are the same distance from the hinge lines; perfect parallelogram. I changed out the receiver to the HobbyKing 3 axis stabilizer. Waiting on the weather to clear to try again.
     
  5. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    sgmoran -

    I'm not sure if perhaps it is the angle of the photo, but looking at the one shot of your wingtip, it appears that the Kf airfoils are not of equal dimension from leading edge back, it appears that your top airfoil is slightly wider from front to back than the lower. Perhaps this might not be a problem in a slower flying plane such as the Beast, it is quite critical in parkjets, but if the airfoils are off a bit on both wings, perhaps that might also be contributing to adverse flying qualities? Something to give a quick check to anyway, as I said, perhaps they are OK and it is just the camera angle.

    Just my $.02 worth.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  6. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    My understanding of the KF airfoil may be wrong? I thought it was 40-50% of the wing width including the ailerons for slow flying foamies. On the V3 jets the KFs do taper at the wing tips. The KFs on this Beast are 40% and I did take into account any taper. On my foam Edge, I have a 40% KF2 and it flies great.
     
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  7. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Yes, you are correct, 40% is a good rule of thumb, what I meant was that the trailing edges of your two Kfs do not appear to be equal, one is further behind the other. 40% or not, if the Kfs are unequal from front to back, it can cause issues with uneven airflow and pressure over the wing causing your plane to zoom or to dive at higher throttle settings. On a parkjet that can reach 70 mph or more, even a mm or two of difference in where the trailing edges are can cause the plane to zoom or dive. As I said, it may not be a problem on a slower flying plane such as the Beast, but worth looking at in my humble opinion.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
  8. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Your "humble" opinion should be rephrased to "expert"
    On my Edge, I have SFGs so the KFs are straight cut at the tips. Should the tips of wings with KFs on these park jets be cut straight or sanded to taper? I sanded them because I thought it looked better, I wasn't taking into consideration aerodynamics, zoom, dive and wing tip stalls. I have yet to break the sound barrier like I've seen you do with your MIGo_O
     
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  9. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Sgmoran, I would suggest trying the beast with no kfs especially since it's a bipe, which already has a lot of lift from the 2 wings. Also, I would suggest that you have it dialed in before modding it since you have a few extra moving parts, haha. Jay and I did fine without kfs, and even though I know some people do, I do not use them at all on straight wings. Whenever I have its been a bad experience. Good luck!

    www.youtube.com/gstrysky
    www.frcfoamies.com
     
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  10. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Live and learn, why I like this MPF. Can build, tinker, modify, experiment, crash--all for just a couple of bucks.
     
  11. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Finishing up the radio programming on MIG 29. Took awhile with my new transmitter to figure it out. It has spoilerons, hope to maiden it later in the week. I'll post some picts once painted.
     
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  12. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks for the kind words, sgmoran.:) When using Kf4s (which I have done on pretty much all the parkjets I have built), I have found best success with just bevelling the top portion of the wing and top airfoil.

    2013-11-27 07.08.34.jpg

    In the picture above, this is what it looks like on one of my F18s. My technique once all the glue is good and dry on my Kfs is to draw a line about 1/2" inch back from the straight leading edge, then I use a new blade in this kind of knife to shave the leading edge back to the line I have drawn.

    2013-01-08 08.13.38.jpg
    I shave mostly just the top airfoil and the wing, I don't cut much into the bottom foil. Then I use sandpaper to smooth and round the top edge a bit, doing my best to ensure the leading edge of both sides of the wing look as close to each other as possible so I don't get any kind of weird imbalance between left and right wing.

    I have never tried symmetrical sanding from top and bottom, when I first started, most folks were using the same technique I am now, so I went with that, I think it allows a much straighter and more true bevel and sand, trying to match top and bottom angles for me anyways would probably lead to an uneven leading edge meeting the airflow.

    I try to have the trailing edges match as perfectly as possible as I look at it from the wingtip to ensure best airflow over the wing top and bottom without causing any adverse zoom or dive situations due to uneven airfoild widths. I have been having good luck using dollar store foam top and bottom, so about 4.5mm sandwiching 6mm depron (using the paperless DTF saves me on depron and gives a slightly thinner overall profile to the leading edge of the wing).

    I don't sand the wingtips at all, again this could cause some adverse flying characteristics, I just ensure that any Kf that might be sticking out at the wingtip is shaved off to prevent any weird wingtip vortices or anything like that.

    I find this version of Kf4 has worked best for me for all the parkjets I have built and flown, it provides me with better handling in the wind, better tracking qualities and better overall stability in pretty much every speed regime. It is truly a matter of personal preference through trial and experimentation, some folks prefer no Kfs, some prefer Kf2, I personally prefer Kf4, again, just my preference.

    Hope this helps somewhat. Good luck with your next flight of the Beast.

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  13. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Once again, great advice from the Jedi Master. I went out to fly today and it was too windy for the Beast. I may chop off the tips if it is still sketchy with the HobbyKing stabilizer/receiver. I just finished my MIG 29 build and I had already sanded the tips before I read your post. With those beautifully tapered tips, they were begging for sanding. But then I again, I don't reach warp speed like you. BTW, I refer to you in DX8 post.
     
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  14. e3_Scott

    e3_Scott Top Gun

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    Thanks, sgmoran! I am probably more comparable to Yoda, fat and ugly (although I am quite a bit taller):rolleyes: than to Tom Cruise as mentioned in the Dx8 thread. I replied to your Dx8 post in that thread, I'm not a Dx8 user...Turnigy er9x, so hopefully I won't be struck by lightning...:oops:

    Thanks again for the kind words...:)

    Cheers,

    Scott
     
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  15. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    I swapped my receiver out for the Orange 3 axis stabilizer combo. Too much lift with the KF4s and per e3_Scott I modified the wing tips. I had sanded them to a taper, so I cut one each off of each tip. I also moved the CG forward. Plane flew much better thanks to the gyros. This plane will not turn without rudder. That was part of my problem on the maiden. I did fly without the gyro, almost lost it but flipped the switch and gyros saved the day. I need to program in some aileron rudder mixing. This plane is going to be a looker, and not a 3 D monster like I had hoped. I also flew my modified cheap and easy with elevons and a rudder. That was a blast, crazy high alpha and spins, posted picts of it in the dedicated forum.
     
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  16. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Looks great, sgmoran! Yes, this plane is rudder and elevator, and then some ailerons. You have to think a little differently with the 3d style planes. Rather than mixing ailerons with rudder, after a couple flights you should be able to do that without thinking! I'm just learning myself!
    The simpler the better with the beast so I would recommend starting with the gain at zero, then dial it up until you can feel it fighting you, like that wagging tail. Then cut it back. You don't want it flying the plane, just helping out in an emergency, like stability control in cars! The kfs are probably not necessary. If you remove them or fill in behind them so they are just double thick wings then I bet you'll have a good flier! Looks beautiful though! Time to put leg irons on your camera man! Thanks for building the FRC Beast!

    www.youtube.com/gstrysky
    www.frcfoamies.com
     
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  17. sgmoran

    sgmoran Ace Pilot

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    Good idea about filling in the KFs. I am definitely used to turning with ailerons and not the rudder. I think this plane is going to be my Sunday cruiser! All about looking good!
     
  18. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    It does look good for sure! 3d flying is a lot more complicated than parkjet bank and yank, but as you say, great Sunday fliers! I also love flying my little Blade MQX quad (bought used from JettaManDan) to keep my fingers in practice. Flying 3d or quads only helps with flying parkjets!
     
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  19. Newt

    Newt Administrator

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    This my friend Alex flying my FRC Foamies 3D Beast @ 80% scale
    I have abused this poor plane to no end. Even tore the wings off in a crash last week.
    It is pretty heavy now with hot glue repairs - but still flies remarkably well - with the right pilot!
     
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  20. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Excellent, Mark! Good to see That the thing can actually do 3d maneuvers! I'm not a good enough 3d pilot to push the plane. That gym is exactly what I need around here.

    www.youtube.com/gstrysky
    www.frcfoamies.com
     
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