Canard set-up help needed

Discussion in 'Scratchbuilding!' started by vedo, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    I have DX5e and I'd like to set up canards only on the pitch not on the roll. I'm also using a V-tail mixer since the throws on the radio are extremely low.
    Would anybody be able to help please?
     
  2. gm3

    gm3 Top Gun

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    ok, does the canard have 2 or 1 servo going to it
     
  3. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    One servo.
     
  4. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    The easiest thing to so is to use a y splitter in elevator channel. But, you should be careful about having canards move upwards! The upward angle of the canards will stall your main wing. Then you ate doomed. I use them only for lerx. Did you see the "to canard or not to canard" thread?
    What plane are you building?

    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
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  5. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    Shumate's Grippen. I debated long time if I should have one servo for each canard so I can go 4x4 and I decided to go for what plans called for. I have one tube connecting both canards
     
  6. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    You should never use canards on roll. Ever! The inside canard immediately stalls and you will have erratic results. The grippen is a plane that will do Ok with active canards, meaning up and down movement. But I would do only 25 % throws max. So, put the control rod low on the servo arm and high on the control horn, then do a plain old y connector from elevator terminal on rx to canard servo and elevator terminal on rx to the elevator. If you want to be able to turn canards on and off, then you'll need to connect that servo to aux channel and mix it with elevator in the TX. Then assign that servo to be active only when the gear switch is on, for example.

    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
  7. gm3

    gm3 Top Gun

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    yup, what he said.
     
  8. JettaManDan

    JettaManDan Administrator

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    F1 knows a ton on this...his advice is worth it's weight in gold!
     
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  9. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Haha, Dan, yes are too kind! I'll be making an su37 mk2 with canards any day now. I'll have them on a switch and moving only down on a lerx mix.

    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
  10. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    thank you F1wanabe!!! I really like that jet so I couldn't resist...here are couple pics of it, all I have to do is connect the servos the right way.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    sorry for the blank files...
     

    Attached Files:

  12. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Yes, that's a good one! I created a profile mig 1.44 that is very similar but with twin stabilizers. It is an excellent (!) canard test bed! Plans are free in the Mig 1.44 profile thread.



    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
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  13. vedo

    vedo Cadet

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    Thank you. Do you think I'll have any issues using a V-tail mixer instead the one on my DX5e. The throws on it are truly bad. I need to upgrade to digital DX6 or 7..
     
  14. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    The throws should be fine on the dx5. Are you placing control rods properly? The vtails mixer would go on ch 1&2 bit remember ch 2 will have the splitter for the canards.

    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
  15. Airflow

    Airflow Top Gun

    I have mixed the carnards in 3 different ways on my Su Fullback. The same mix that I already use on my SU 37 Mk2, limited to upwards only. The canards does a great job when you want to fly slowly, with full control.
     
  16. F1wanabe

    F1wanabe Administrator

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    Airflow, what edge of the canards go up, front or back? On the su I mix them to go down, meaning that the front edge drops. This is the only way that the main wing does not get stalled. After watching many videos of the su and t50 this canards are only used th direct Airflow over the leading edge. On the mirage this is different since the canard is positioned differently.

    youtube/gstrysky
    frcfoamies
     
  17. squishy

    squishy Top Gun

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    And this is why we tell people to buy the best TX you can when you are starting out...now you will have paid for two TX's, or more in the future and it adds up. It's better to just add it all up in the beginning and buy a really nice one..
     
  18. Airflow

    Airflow Top Gun

    Yes you are right! Greg. The mix I now use on my SU is limited. Front edge down / back edge up, Always! in all three mix modes.
    I have a small EDF jet, the Griffin/Gripen (Sky Angel model) with the same mix as my SU Mk2. but-- before I tried my griffin with full carnard movement, and then with the back edge pointing downward, the wing suddenly lost its lift capability. ..The plane crashed... this happened at low altitude. I was not fast enough to sort out the mistake.

    But at higher altitudes, it worked just fine when the canards went the opposite direction towards the elevator. This gives the plane a very quick change in direction. Just like the real plane.
    Some deltas using these carnardmovements to "kick" up the nose during take off.
    Then, when the angle of attack is higher, the front edge drops, quickly! to direct the air over the wing to increase lift during the climb.
     
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  19. LukeWarm

    LukeWarm Top Gun

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    Most real planes use the carnards to improve stability, they are computer and gyro controlled
     
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  20. whatmovesyou

    whatmovesyou Top Gun

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    Canards are very dangerous, but if used properly, help the pilot.
    As Luke mentioned, it improves stability, just like D Powers video did with his high alpha setup and gyro.

    One way it helps, is assisting in the pitch axis. I fly a F-22 EDF with TV plus working canards. As the battery voltage goes down when doing high alpha's and slow flight, the upward thrust lessens and sometimes the nose will not go over and it just slogs along. Added canards, now problem is solved. It pitches the nose over(rather than a stall) and the EDF gathers speed to fly.

    After a number of runs, I fly with TV and functioning canards at all times.
    The key--set the angles properly-- mine is nose down 45 degrees with 50 % expo and 14 degrees nos up with 15% expo. This is mixed in with elevator travel.

    The reason for high expo is when I put nose down for landing, very little canard is used. And yes, it took a number of crashes to get everything resolved.

    The second way it is used is to improve the lift characteristics as you approach the stall angle. If properly located, on average, the stall angle is increased 10-15 degrees(Nasa's numbers) and the canard movement is small(+/- 5 degrees). Go watch a Grippen landing, that will show it is done. Oh yeah, they now use the canard as an airbrake!!

    I have taken a F-22 and added canards to do testing with a prop setup. Notice as I said before, if properly located, it will increase the stall angle. What is the formula? Research shows:
    canard shape, size, distance from wing, distance above/below/equal wing, wing shape/design,airspeed,deflection and many other factors control it. So change one factor slightly and there has to be a way before/after to show the results. It is like a shot in the dark.

    One reason, not to much testing is being done by Nasa and companies is that they are designing's planes to reduce the radar signature and canards don't help.

    So, if you are going to use them, be prepared for a lot of unexpected's.
     
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